Avant Healthcare's Medical Affairs leadership joins an esteemed panel of experts from across the industry to discuss:
- Using virtual advisory board to increase interaction with key opinion leaders (KOLs)
- Implementing a new way of communication allowing KOLs to provide advice to pharmaceutical companies without disrupting clinical workflow
- Utilizing telemedicine or virtual consultation to enhance patient experience and engagement
- Understanding new ways MSLs can collect insights without interacting directly with HCPs
Joel Nunez: Welcome back everyone. I'm excited to introduce you to an amazing panel that we're going to be having a powerful message that we have for this event. So, I'm going to bring with you guys our moderator, his name is Bryan Wilson, who is a regional medical scientific director of cardiovascular and metabolism at Merck.
Bryan Wilson: Thanks Joel for that warm introduction and good morning, good afternoon, good evening everyone. I am so excited to be here and to introduce what I feel is a very timely topic with some of our industry leaders in this area. So without further ado, I would like to introduce our panelists that we'll be speaking to this morning. So first, we have Dr. Bernard Ng, who is VP and head of global medical and clinical affairs with Bayer.
We have Sean Markwardt, who is vice president of Avant Healthcare. We also have Rishi Ohri, who is senior director of digital excellence at Astellas. We have Kunj Gohil, director of digital strategy and he's also the lead of new engagement models within global medical affairs at Novartis. So, thank you gentlemen for being here and before we kick off the panel, we want to go through a few slides.
So we all know that the title of this panel is Increasing Digital Medical Affairs Capabilities. And as I mentioned before, this is a very timely topic given the global COVID-19 pandemic that we're in and pharmaceutical companies and healthcare companies in general, having to understand agile methods to not only show up with value to internal and external stakeholders, but how do we sustain this momentum in leveraging digital tools?
Next slide please. So, we know that the COVID-19 pandemic has presented several challenges, challenges in how we engage with one another internally, as well as externally with stakeholders. And the intention around this panel is to have a honest and candid conversation around how can we initiate using digital tools, but how can we also sustain that process?
We know that COVID-19 has changed our world in some ways for the better, and as we begin to think about how we want to come out of the pandemic, we feel that digital tools is going to be a huge, huge resource for many companies. And I'm so excited to have some of our panelists discuss innovative ways that they've leveraged technology. Next slide please.
So when we think about leveraging digital tools and leveraging these things to enhance stakeholder engagement, there are a few pillars that we'll focus on during this panel. Number one is understanding what digital tools are available and some examples of how companies are using them. We also want to have a short discussion around insights collection. How to leverage digital models to collect insights. What we must never forget about our patients.
And so, patients are at the key of everything we do within the pharmaceutical and healthcare industry. So we also want to have a conversation around digital and how we can leverage that within patient experiences and engagement. We also want to talk a little bit about stakeholder engagement, specifically around advisory boards and how that has changed during the pandemic and ending with communication strategies and also having a general discussion around some take-home messages and key learnings.
So, without further ado, we'll kick off the panel. So, the first question I want to pose this one to Bernard Ng. And this question Bernard is really around, there are so many methods in balancing new ways of engaging stakeholders and how stakeholders engaged with each other to find meaningful solutions. So, can you talk a little bit about what you all are doing at Bayer to address this and what are some of the learnings you can give those that are watching this today?
Bernard Ng: Thank you very much Bryan for that question, right? I'm sure many of us were in the same situation when this pandemic hit us, right? So, we was trying to suddenly do virtual calls most of the time. And we were thinking very much from an internal company perspective of what platforms were compliant? What can we use internally? And many of you I'm sure have experienced the same.
We were trying to force the key opinion leader to use platforms that we are familiar, but oftentimes require installation on their side of the stakeholders, their own laptop or mobile, which is quite challenging because of firewalls and others. From a stakeholder point of view, the key opinion leaders or the doctors just wants us to keep it simple, right?
I do not want to install anything else extra. I think we all learn and pivoted fast and then, we then started to think from their point of view, what will work from them, rather than from a company's point of view, that what we want, right? So, I think coming back to what is important is, actually, how do we make it seamless for our customers? Because they are already faced with so many different changes. Let's not make their life a bit more challenging by imposing another one on them.
Bryan Wilson: I love that Bernard. Thank you for that response. And Kunj, I'm going to forward this to you as well, because I know that you're working with digital enhancement models and you're doing a lot around stakeholder engagement. Can you talk a little bit about what you all are doing at Novartis to address this?
Kunj Gohil: Yeah. So, I think we had the same exact problem that Bernard just mentioned, right? And looking at how our MSLs were engaging with medical experts was the same thing. We're asking our medical experts to install complex, clunky software, right? That doesn't work partial of the time. You have to mute unmute. And so I think it's a similar challenge across the board. But if we look even beyond that, we've always had this sense that if we build it, they will come, right?
And that comes to everything. And I would say that's a pharma-specific methodology that we to push. And during this past year has been a very big realization. As people are learning differently, as people are engaging with their patients differently, as people are just living their lives in a much different manner, how can we reach them in the same ways that they're currently engaging with other education tactics or other external environments?
And so, we've started to look at our omni-channel approach as a core example of that. Rather than looking to drive external experts to a Novartis-built solution, how can we tailor that to where our medical experts already looking to go for that information? And I think that's a common theme around many of our activities, whether it's our MSLs or omni-channel or other digital strategies that we're focusing on.
Bryan Wilson: Thank you Kunj. So, I'm going to switch gears a little bit and elaborate on what you and Bernard just talked about and going to send a question to Rishi, because what we're talking about and what we've heard in the first couple of minutes are comments around understanding your customer and really understanding your stakeholder and leveraging that insight to tailor and customized the engagement. So, Rishi, can you talk about how companies can add that personal response and operating through that personal lens to bring those customized methods of communicating with stakeholders? How are you all doing it at your company?
Rishi Ohri: Sure Bryan. Thanks for that question. I think and to build onto what Bernard and what Kunj said, it's really about that seamless, simple experience. And I think if we look about personalization and preferences and access, these are all things that we're all challenged through this pandemic. And I think as part of that too is, if I put myself in the shoes of a patient, of a payer, of an HCP and I'm working with a pharma company, I don't care whether I'm talking with an MSL or a sales rep, I want the experience to be the same, seamless experience.
And I think if I look at companies like Astellas, where I'm at, we've had to introduce capabilities like EMSL, capabilities to help optimize to... Because we don't have access during the time to these institutions. Also, implementing capabilities like virtual advisory boards, we're gonna talk about that in a few moments, but asynchronous synchronous capabilities, these are really critical for us now. I'll also follow that to more empowering your customers, your stakeholders with access to information.
Traditionally, most have called a call center for medical information support. Now, companies like ours are building our self service portals to be able to empower those stakeholders with access to information at their fingertips, instead of picking up a phone, which sounds like 100 years old to do that. I think we have to react. We have to be agile. And I think that seamless, simple approach that Bernard had mentioned is something that I think we all need to do.
Bryan Wilson: I agree 100%. And elaborating on that a little bit further, we also understand within the medical affairs space, many of us within our companies, we operate within organizations that are field-facing. So, these roles are predominantly field-facing roles. And when you think about that, you've had a surplus of employees that were out in the field in various states, various regions to now having to do this role 100% virtual. So Sean, I want to propose this question to you, because we've talked a little bit about this. Can you talk a little bit around how your company had to maneuver that switch from a field-facing approach to a 100% virtual approach?
Sean Markwardt: Yeah. So, I think being with a scientific communications agency, we get to see a lot of different kinds of responses. And so, we've seen a wide spectrum of how different companies have responded. One of our clients held a series of COVID-related advisory board that pulled out a lot of great, authentic insight about how they want to be treated. And I think that both Rishi and Kunj hit on some really great points.
One about being uniform in your communications. When you go to Target, you don't expect different service in the housewares department than you do at customer service. You want that same experience. But back to the advisory boards, one of the insights that was pulled out was it's actually been more convenience for physicians to be interacting with MSLs during this time. Maybe this time last year, we were expecting that all this transition and shift to virtual, virtual, virtual, because we had to, that it was temporary.
And we were sort of putting a bandaid on a temporary situation. I think now, a year later, we realize this is longterm. And so, it's been interesting to see the companies who right out of the gate said, "You know what? This is going to be a long-term thing that we need to adapt to," versus those who were just trying to put a bandaid on things. And so, I think having a long-term vision for what digital is, getting back to the topic of engagement, having that long-term view of what digital engagement looks like as a way to supplement all the other things that you are doing and creating uniform, positive experiences.
Bryan Wilson: I love that Sean, because what it speaks to is the ability to be strategic. And it's not a process of throwing as many things to the wall as possible and seeing what sticks, but being calculated and strategic about approaches in order to allow for the sustainability. So, one way that companies are leveraging the power of being strategic is seeking a data-driven approach. And Kunj, I know you're very familiar with this space. So, I would love to hear how you're leveraging a data-driven approach at Novartis.
Kunj Gohil: Yeah. Bryan, this is my passion. And, unfortunately, we don't have enough time for me to talk about everything, but I'll cover a couple of the highlights. And it goes to the topic that Rishi started on, right? About personalization. At the end of the day, when we look at ourselves, when we sign on to Amazon, it's amazing that Amazon has predicted what I'm about to buy before I even click anything, right?
And it's amazing that when I check out, I've checked out with three things that I didn't know I needed, but now I feel that I can't live without, right? And that's what we want to be able to do as Medical Affairs. Not in that creepy manner, but to help meet physicians with the content that they value, in the way that they value it and when they need it. And so, for us within our company, we're really pushing this data-driven engagement type of approach.
We realize that it's a two-prong approach. First is around the technology or the asset. Empowering our associates with the best data, so they can make the most informed decisions as a supplement to what they already know. Not to replace them, but to augment what they already have. But this is a journey, right? And we want to be able to give them advanced analytics and artificial intelligence, but it's like giving a Ferrari to someone who doesn't know how to drive a car, right?
You have to build up that capability. And so, we're also on a journey of enhancing their capabilities. Let's give them the iPhone of solutions. Not that iPhone is better than anything else. It's a solution that you can pick up and just start using. Don't really have to train. Don't really have to do anything complex with it. As our associates around the world, agnostic of your country and agnostic of your role, become comfortable leveraging this in your day to day roles.
Let's now make it more complex, let's add unique data sets, so that you're looking at things you haven't looked at before. And all of a sudden, you're almost asking for a solution to look at this on aggregate, which is data science. So we're on this data journey, right? And it's multi-year, multifactorial, but it really highlights the technology as well as this people in process capability that we really can't forget about. So, it's a passion and I think our entire environment is going to move to that in some way, shape and form.
Bryan Wilson: I love that Kunj. Does anyone else have any comments around data-driven approaches before we move onto the next topic?
Sean Markwardt: I mean, this may or may not be specifically related, Bryan, but the other point that Kunj brought up earlier that I just think is important to acknowledge is just when you look at the way the world has changed, not even with COVID, but even prior to that, the way in which people are engaging with other industries is very different. And content distribution, that model is very different than it was 10 years ago, because 10 years ago to this point, it was how do we drive traffic to Novartis' website?
How do we drive traffic to bayer.com? And that's no longer the case with all of these platforms. The distribution of content and the consumer or customer engagement now is what some have called a discovery model. You don't need to come to avanthealthcare.com, but if we can get you to find us on Instagram or Twitter or LinkedIn that's where people are going for other things. And so, the more you can use data and that analytic mindset, but also capability, allows you to just refine and better engage with your customers as they already are in their daily life.
Bryan Wilson: I agree. And it also talks about and speaks to the ability to make meaningful connections. And we've seen and heard examples about having difficulties in connecting with certain scientific leaders or key opinion leaders and how leveraging digital tools could uncover innovative ways of reaching a very difficult KOL or SL. So, Rishi, I want to ask you a little bit about what you're doing at Astellas to enhance those connections with KOLs or SLs that previously before the pandemic, you probably didn't have the best success connecting with, but by leveraging digital tools, you were able to enhance those connections.
Rishi Ohri: Yeah. Thanks Bryan. I think it's also about, and I'll give you a little short story about, in our digital roadmap, we had planned for virtual advisory boards years ago. And I was actually called a killer of science when I propose this, because who could imagine taking away the face-to-face interaction, then came COVID. So, yeah. I think it's important to understand that back to the earlier discussion about preferences, what's interesting for us at Astellas is that we enabled a virtual engagement platform that allows for both synchronous like the exchange we're having here today, or asynchronous communications, which is communications over a period of time.
And we found that both of these communication methods have been very effective and have gotten great reviews from our stakeholders as well. Even opening it up to patient advisory boards, things that enable folks from the comfort of their own homes to be able to support the science and the research. I think also, if I think about flexibility, traditionally, we've asked for these advisors to travel over the weekends, away from their families, it's limited their abilities to support the discussions.
And now through these mechanisms, these innovative approaches, we're able to collect that information more seamlessly. And to Kunj's point too, I think I'm also a data lover. And now we look at the data that's coming in from these exchanges. It is information that now we can process through NLP algorithms, through artificial intelligence to be able to support even more deeper insights that we maybe wouldn't have gotten before. So I think, allowing us to capture these insights is one thing, but also providing this convenience to our stakeholders, I think has been something that has been, surprisingly, really well received.
And I think as I think mentioned before, this is, we always say what's the new normal, right? But I see this as being a tool where, what I would love is to create a toolbox for our stakeholders within my company to say, "This is when we should use a synchronous advisory, but this is when we should use asynchronous." Giving them access to these tool sets based on when they should be used in more of a hybrid setting, I think is going to be really impactful for our company.
Bryan Wilson: I love that Rishi. Any other comments or examples of case studies where you've leverage digital tools to enhance virtual ad boards?
Rishi Ohri: Yeah, I would say from a virtual advisory board, I mean, enabling capabilities for engagement is one thing, but as I mentioned previously, enabling our EMSL capabilities as well has been also a huge step forward to gain access to HCPs that normally we wouldn't have access to. This also is very helpful in looking at healthcare professionals that are in more rural areas that maybe were hard to reach and access. So I think, these are now opportunities for us to take advantage of that knowledge, to support our research and overall commitment and value to patients.
Sean Markwardt: The quick example I was going to give is, actually, pre-pandemic, we developed an augmented reality app to be used in conjunction with a symposium presentation to really bring out the livelihood of the content to which the speaker would be presenting. Now, the conference we had planned for this to be at was canceled, actually, last year, but the app itself has created another way for our clients to be communicating with their customers when they're not sitting in a symposium presentation.
And so, just having things like that and while some may think of or treat augmented reality as something to be used in an acute environment for a specific purpose or even sort of gimmicky, I think there's actually real, long-term value to something like that, if you treat it that way and you invest in it. So that's just a quick example of how engagement can be expanded just beyond asking to pay attention to your presentation during a 45 minute symposium.
Kunj Gohil: Can I just add one last thing to what Sean and Rishi had mentioned?
Bryan Wilson: Yeah, of course.
Kunj Gohil: And there's a common theme, which is the enduring nature of this, right? During COVID, it's proved more than ever, we want to do what we want to do, when we want to do it. So asynchronous, insights gathering through ad boards, what Rishi mentioned, is more valuable now than it has ever been, because my time is more valuable.
What Sean just mentioned about using apps, we've done a similar approach at Novartis, where we're actually leveraging gamification, that's already existing on the app store and creating pharma-specific modules for that. So not only is it a new format, it's targeting this new way of learning, but it's available when you want to use it, right? In a unique type of channel. So, I just wanted to expand on that. I think the enduring nature or asynchronous nature that Rishi mentioned, is going to be even more valuable in the future.
Sean Markwardt: If I can just put a quick exclamation point on Kunj's expansion. I think that it's important to look at it as an investment. I think a mistake that we've seen at Avant Healthcare, again, having the privilege of having dozens of organizations that we're supporting, if you do it halfway and just say, "We'll try this out. We'll half invest in this, see how it goes. And if it's successful, then we'll continue on with it." I think that's kind of a dangerous model and you may not get the best data.
There was a study just a few months ago, I think about digital apps and pharma and the overwhelming response. Now this was patient-specific. The response was, "They're fine, but they're not great." So, there was no reason to keep going back to it. So that stickiness, if you are going to create some sort of an app, a platform, it's important to create the stickiness and keep people coming back. So, constant content refreshes different tools. If it's a one and done thing that long-term enduring nature is that the opportunity that can be lost.
Bryan Wilson: I agree Sean. So, we did receive a question from our audience and it's around, how does one get started? This is... We've thrown it around a lot of terms EMSL, digital capabilities, but how does one actually get started? What's this starting point? And the second part to this questioned is, how do you personalize how you get started?
Kunj Gohil: So, I guess I can start. It's interesting, because I can almost combine the two, right? How can you start on personalization as a third topic? And maybe I'll start there. And it's not about reinventing the wheel. I think that's the most important thing that pharma companies try to do that I strongly advocate against. It's about looking at the activities you're already pursuing and let's use the MSL as an example.
The MSLs are doing personalization. They meet with a specific healthcare professional. They know, roughly, what they are interested in and they communicate scientific education based on that. If you were to take a closer look at that process and actually discuss with an MSL, how do you personalize that engagement? You'd be able to see they researched their medical expert. They look to understand their most recent activities. They look to, after their engagement, see what the followup could be.
And during their engagement, they're going to ask certain questions that can have a future followup type of engagement. To me, there's two elements of this, is data research and then data understanding for future engagements. The data research, let's understand what are our MSLs curious about or leveraging pre-engagement and let's give them better access to that, or let's analyze it in a way that they haven't been able to analyze it previously to save them time.
Time is money at the end of the day. The second is that if you truly want to personalize and you want to drive an engagement strategy on more virtual interactions, or on a certain type of content, or a certain type of message, the MSL is the most valuable data gatherer you have. The more information that you get on aggregate, the more you can change your strategy on aggregate. So it's really, to me, taking a deeper look at that process and understanding, how can you start step by step in that larger initiative?
Rishi Ohri: Just to add to Kunj's comment, I think that speaks well to more of a frontline approach to gather that insight. But if you look at more of another approach for more of a back office approach, I would say, if you can leverage some of the tools sets that you may have access to around back to the data, data-driven, understanding how and when HCPs are clicking into your portals, how long they're spending on certain content items, those are some other ways to understand engagement and see where traffic is going and also to help us understand the question, right? How to personalize content that is meaningful. I think you can learn a lot by looking at the backend of where clicks are happening and time spent and so forth. That might be another approach to consider as well.
Bryan Wilson: Thanks Kunj and Rishi. Any other comments?
Sean Markwardt: Go ahead Bernard.
Bernard Ng: I think of one of the other questions that was raised, Bryan, leading to that is, do we expect regulation and compliance to change in this area? Right? [inaudible 00:29:09] to environment? To me, the regulation is always a leg up. They will come. Today, we are, I would say, quite free to do a lot of things. I believe there will be tightening coming. And when that tightens, it is, how do we prepare ourselves today?
And this is why data cleansing, the compartmentalization of all the different data is so important. So that if regulations were to come, it's the organization is ready. I mean, we have seen all the data protection and everything in the other parts of the world. It's going to come. You have seeing Apple now in their new iOS, stopping people from tracking things.
It will come, right? So, while there is advances, but there will also be challenges in terms of personalization, that's what Kunj mentioned. Because you need data to personalize and you need individual specific data to personalize. So, it will be on an interesting journey for sure, but I'm glad that we are here because we are going to live through it.
Bryan Wilson: Yes. And so, following up on that Bernard, we had another question that addressed, can one really be predictive in the pharmaceutical industry? And I would love to hear your general comments around that, because it's not the same as an Amazon. We talked about the Amazon analogy a few minutes ago, but what would you say to the predictive ability of digital capabilities in pharma?
Bernard Ng: I'll take a shot and I'm sure the rest of the panel can try. To be predictive, the user needs to be willing to share information with you. So Netflix is a good example. How can they be predictive? Partly, we are actually sharing information by what shows we watch, how much we watch it, whether we it or we thumbs down it, right? Now, it will only become very good if the user shares the data. It is the same with the healthcare profession. If he's willing to share more and more of his data, right?
On how he treats his patient, what is his... How he thinks and all that. It will help. The reality is not many are willing to do it, because there's still a trust barrier, right? So, that's how I would think. If we want to personalize, it must be a two-way journey. We can't do it on our own, but the healthcare provider needs to trust a bit and then needs to share information. And then we give him back value by sharing the information and not misuse that the sharing that he has done. So I'll open it up for the rest of the panel.
Sean Markwardt: So Bernard, you said the magic word, which is value. Sure, trust is one thing, but really the currency that we are talking about is value. We are very much living in an attention economy now. And it is a crowded market. So, I'm not just talking about pharma. I'm talking about the Taco Bell app, and I'm talking about Instagram and I'm talking about... So, I'm talking about the kids crying in the background and the dogs the barking at the mailman.
We are very much in a competitive attention economy. And the only way that we are going to establish some of these digital platforms as a place for our customers to be at is by providing value. And so, I think understanding what that value exchanged between pharma and HCPs or pharma and patients looks like and the more insights we have around creating value, you have to create value first. You can't wait to build an audience and then decide how you're going to create value for your audience. Start with the value and then other things should fall into place.
Bryan Wilson: I love that Sean. I absolutely loved that comment around value, because it is the epitome of everything. So, we did receive another question and this is around examples. So we're getting into the segment of what does this look like and what have you experienced? So the question is, can you give us an example-
Sean Markwardt: Throwing us something out of the clouds, Bryan?
Bryan Wilson: Yes. So, can you give us an example of an insight that you gathered via the data route that you wouldn't have received in an old fashioned way? So, can either one of you speak to some really cool examples of leveraging digital to obtain something that you would not have without it?
Kunj Gohil: So, I have so many examples, but I'm going to gravitate to the two MSLs actually told me about. And the first one is that, traditionally, the MSL is using arbitrary resources like Google to research their medical expert. And we provided access to a third party solution that does this on steroids, essentially. And for a new indication that we were launching, an MSL was actually able to identify, get connected with and have a first conversation with a medical expert who does the highest number of testing for the therapeutic area of interest for us in the nation.
That was not on our core customer list previously. Not only did she get access, this person is now involved in a lot of our clinical efforts, where before they weren't even on our radar. So in terms of the identification, this was a huge first step for us. The second one that I would say and then, I'll turn it to the team, is that we've actually taken a look at our territories and the core list of MSLs by different therapeutic areas.
And we've actually been able to reprioritize them in real time, to see are we reaching the people with the most impact or not? Leading to not only more meaningful engagements, but topics and insights that are more valuable to us. The MSLs have responded well to it and so have our headquarters team. So, those are two very tangible things that would not have been possible without seamless or simple data solutions.
Bryan Wilson: Thanks Kunj. And we received another question around social media. So, Rishi, I want to propose that one to you. How can one leverage social media to engage with HCPs or healthcare providers?
Rishi Ohri: This is a good question and a tough one to answer, because I think back to the earlier question about compliance and how do we access information in a very open way? I think we continue to struggle with this question, because I feel it is something that we as an industry need to align more. And it makes it challenging when you look at all the different data privacy rules across different continents and geographies, but the promise is there, if you look at the information that I'm able to get out off of LinkedIn and Twitter and other outlets.
But as far as the mechanism on how to do it, I feel like we're at the very surface level of that, at least I can say at our company, trying to figure out more of the compliance angles. So I don't really have a great answer on that. I'm hoping maybe my panelists here can help with their experiences with social media as well.
Bryan Wilson: Sure. And speaking to social media, we did receive one more question and I know we're almost out of time, but I want to make sure that this gets answered, because it ducktails off of the social media. And it's around displaying digital content, such as posters on company websites, are you all doing that within your organizations? And can one of you speak really quickly to how to do that compliantly without having to deal with registration fees in an abstract embargoes?
Bernard Ng: I'll take a quick stab at this. Companies will only put their own posters onto their own website, right? So, the company own that data, the company the poster. Yes, we have joined a Congress, we've put it up in the congress. So yes, people who pay the Congress can see it, but the data is mine. I have the right as a company to open it to public. Just like now, a lot of our clinical trial data, we've opened it to the public. We have a public leaflet.
So to me, I don't see that as a non-compliant, because it's our data and then, we have the right to share it with whoever we want, right? We are not sharing other company's data from the Congress. We are sharing, usually, our data that we put in the Congress. It's the same in the old way, where certain journal article that we publish, we can decide to make it free for all.
Bryan Wilson: I agree Bernard. My sentiments exactly. That is exactly how we do it at Merck. And certainly, if you are the creator of that data, you are the steward of that data. Then you should have free Liberty. And certainly, I don't think other companies are in the business of posting other company's data. So, very well said. So, we are at the end of our session and gentlemen, honestly, this has been such a pleasure. And we want to thank all of you who are listening and submitting your questions and to you Bernard, Rishi, Kunj and Sean, thank you so much for your insight. And are people able to connect with you all on LinkedIn?
Sean Markwardt: Absolutely.
Rishi Ohri: Definitely. Yeah.
Bryan Wilson: Sure. So you've heard it from all of them. Feel free to connect with them on LinkedIn to continue to conversation. And we thank you for your time.
Sean Markwardt: Thanks for hosting, Bryan.
Kunj Gohil: Thanks everybody.
Rishi Ohri: Thank you.
Bryan Wilson: Thank you.
Bernard Ng: Thank you everyone.
Joel Nunez: Goodbye.
Bernard Ng: Goodbye.
Kunj Gohil: Bye.
Raquel Guzman: Joel you're on mute.
Joel Nunez: Thank you all. Thank you for the panelists again. And see you the next session.